Comments on: Global warming – why trapping carbon may not work

By: Francis Sedgemore

Francis Sedgemore — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:25:40 +0000

Snoopy – it’s not about the magnitude of solar irradiance of the Earth in direct comparison with the energy produced by humans. What matters is how the heat produced by us affects the planet’s atmosphere on local, regional and global scales. I too cannot accept Nordell’s contention that “thermal pollution” is largely responsible for global warming, but I’ll listen to anyone who argues that it could be a contributory factor.

It’s interesting how any discussion of Nordell’s science quickly degenerates into an ideological argument about nuclear power. A cursory Google search reveals that Mr Heath spends his time on various web forums expressing contempt for wind power, and praising nuclear.

By: SnoopyTheGoon

SnoopyTheGoon — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:40:42 +0000

The discussion of nuclear power benefits should not be restricted to the issues of heat and CO2 only. We benefit as well from reduction of pollution by hundreds of chemicals created by oil- or coal-burning power-plants.

Beside – what Warren Heath says. A minuscule fluctuation in solar output will easily hide all the heat energy produced by puny us. Bleh…

By: Warren Heath

Warren Heath — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:32:36 +0000

What utter nonsense. Once again anti-nuclear fanatics inventing some ridiculous pseudo-science.

The total power production of humans on this Earth is 16 TW. The Solar Energy received by the Sun is 174,000 TW ! . Just Radioactive Decay in the Earth supplies 30 TW of heat energy.

Try heating up your local region on a cold winter day by idling thousands of vehicles and heating thousands of homes. Might make the whole city one or two degrees warmer – no effect whatsoever on a larger region.

The heat wasted by thermal power plants (can be used in CHP and Desalination Power Plants), is insignificant in its effect on global climate. And will remain so
by idling thousands of vehicles and heating thousands of homes. Might make the whole city one or two degrees warmer – no effect whatsoever on a larger region.

The heat wasted by thermal power plants (can be used in CHP and Desalination Power Plants), is insignicant in its effect on global climate. And will remain so.

By: Francis Sedgemore

Francis Sedgemore — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:41:33 +0000

If Gervet and his mentor Nordell are serious in claiming that the bulk of global warming is due to "thermal pollution", then they are surely indulging in hyperbole. But 9% is not the same as the two orders of magnitude quoted by Gumbel and Rodhe, unless you focus on the climate forcing figures quoted by Dave Occam, for example. But there we must consider the validity of black body assumptions when applied to the complex, non-equilibrium system that is the Earth. Back of envelope calculations are not enough. There is serious discussion about the contribution of waste heat to climate change. Part of that has to do with the prospect of tapping that waste heat and turning it into useful energy (see, for example, my article "Infrared antennas for solar energy generation"). What is evident from recent discussions of the detail of anthropogenic climate change is that there remain significant uncertainties in some of the variables involved. As it happens, the more we learn, the worse it is. For example, sea level rise is likely to be significantly greater than the figures quoted by the IPCC. We should keep an open mind when other hypotheses are put forward, no matter how controversial they may first appear. I too have my doubts about Nordell's calculations, but there may be something in the core argument.

By: Dave Occam

Dave Occam — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:30:54 +0000

Just how much heat do we produce and how much has accumulated?

From the Copenhagen Climate Report we can see that there has been an accumulation of 15.9 x10e22 Joules of energy on the planet over the recent 42 year period. That works out to an average and continuous heating power requirement of 120 Terra Watts (calculated by dividing the energy by the total number of seconds in 42 years)

The total average world power production today is only 16 Terra Watts! Let’s say an average of 14 TW for the last 42 years. Assume 20% efficiency for the worlds power production, so that equals 11 TW (80%) average heat loss into the environment.

11 TW is only 9% of 120 Terra-Watts, the energy required to explain the heating over the recent 42 year period. And that assumes all of that waste industrial heat energy is trapped here as opposed to much of it being radiated out into space.

Another way to look at it is as a climate forcing in units of power per square meter of earths surface:
11 Terra Watts /510 Terra meters-square = 0.02 W/m2. Compare this to the current GW forcing estimate of 1.8 W/m2.

Heat pollution isn’t even in the order of magnitude required to account for global warming.